[SC] Bots and Cheats ... archive

Ive been reading 2 threads about this from you... you appear to be making outlandish claims with no proof.
Did someone pop you on a bad day and you feel you had to put your wings on and fly off the handle...

 

How many hours can you play straight up legit without having a bite/drink to eat/guzzle and having/go to door #1 and/or #2

 

I have been in this game since 2008 , and have ships on a number of servers, and are clan leader on a couple too, so the following comments do not necessarily apply to those encountered by this account. however my first comment is relevant to all, when the short lived Uridium Wars was running complaints with evidence to UW support were taken seriously and looked into. I realise that DO has much larger numbers of players, but over the 8 years I have been playing there has never been a decent system for reporting with evidence those cheating in fact some who have done this have themselves been banned.
I can illustrate this point thus, a number of years ago I had a new player join, he was not particularly any good, just a bog standard player, then suddenly his ship kill rate and ranking shot up. I got suspicious as I have always had a real issue with cheats and cloaked up and followed him, and watched him both use cheats to earn RP from npcs and kills from players. He admitted at one point in yahoo messsenger that he was using cheats, his attitude was everyone else was so why shoudnt he and he both admitted what cheats he was using including autolock, speed hack and macro killing. After booting him from clan, i emailed support with both video and also screenshots of his chats. No action was taken, he is now a top user and still uses the same cheats and is one of the top 3 complained about players on all of the servers I play combined.

I am not a coder, but I am also not stupid, nor was another player in my clan who reported the same issue with player over speed, he was told "its lag or latency" to which his response that he was playing on a machine that was a "military point of prescence" on the net made those explanations impossible, another clan member my brother was given the same explanation when he reported similar, they did not appreciate his response that he was playing using the entire resources of the Orange Telecoms test network of which he is the chief architect and engineer so he certainly was not lagging or experiencing latency, and they banned him for 28 days.

The explanation i have seen and been told for the 3 most common hacks and I do believe those concerned are:

Speed hack, this is done using the facility to upgrade engines with prometium, and involves double boosting the upgrade, creating a small but noticeable difference in speed. I am not going to elaborate, and I have not tried it, but the person concerned showed me in a couple of map races round 4-4 that it works.

Not Dying with no hitpoints showing. This was explained to me as a return of the old favourite, the 3rd config hack, updated so that when switched to 3rd config the ship recovers a 3rd of its HP instantly but on screen shows nothing. I have seen this effect recently in game, and the player in chat just sent a couple of smileys when i asked he was using an invisible 3rd config.

autolocking through EMP, contrary to belief, the ship that has been hit with an EMP, does actually lose lock, however, the autolock is now so refined it immediately relocks the nearest ship to it which will normally be the one it is chasing, this also explains how just occasionally it will autolock another ship instead that crosses its path in the intervening milliseconds if it nearer.

While there will always be people who will cry foul when popped, in a small number of cases it will be true, and certainly the same names do repeat time and time again. system where players can report with evidence suspicious activity needs to be developed, and that way if certain players come up time and time again they can be monitored. I myself in last few days have seen autocollecting and shooting bots on maps, and when others and myself, shot the player down a number of times through a constant 36 hour period the ship was flying around, and complained with evidence to Support including his comments when challenged in which he admitted the hack, said we should appreciate the free kills, and said he wasnt worried , that those killing him would be banned for pushing and he would be free to carry on.
He was correct, so far he is still on 24 hours a day, and 3 of those who shot him down have had accounts suspended for repeatedly killing him.
So we have a situation where the honest players trying to stop the bots get punished and those botting get away laughing. Until this issue is resolved those who try to convince us that they are are on the honest players side against the botters simply look foolish. And when one botter is simultaneously wearing the title of UBA champion and get shot down 50 times in a night by ships much weaker without ever firing a shot in defence, there is simply no excuse for that account to not be investigated.

 

Absolutely spot on VC

 

Well said VC,

ive had enough too, my problem is the staff at BP not the players, although i have been autolocked as you mentioned - straight after using EMP by a member from [removed] clan, she thinks im silly but like you im an old player since 2008. BP have made plenty money off me but i dont feel valued at all. The reporting system is shocking, whats more distressing is they dont answer our concerns and give a reason why they are operating this way. Theres alot of hype about volunteer CM's but what about a volunteer team that looks into issues like this. Im ready to play another game because sadly, everything you have stated is correct.

I had a rant in speakers corner because it feels like im banging my head against a brick wall. With the "reloaded" thingy going on i thought things had been stepped up, but it was just an advertising stunt, nothing more.

Bottom line, they dont have the capability and wont pay someone to get the job done, they rely on simple automated software to catch idiots that bot 24/7.

Thats my 2 pence, beyond caring now.

Names/Accusations are not permitted

 

you have to say the game's name to prove that you actually found another game.

 

It would just get censored, and i dont have to prove anything.

 

fine pm it to me.

 

On the other hand, the bot detection also "catches" players who play honestly.

A family member who also plays was recently kicked for using a bot. However, in two weeks time (since he started his account) he might have logged 10-15 hours max, and only JUST made level 10. The majority of his time was spent logging in, checking his refineries, opening the map screen (if ore was finished being transferred), sending more ore to his ship, then logging out. His ship (a Leo) and equipment were bought at auction from credits received from ore, or from the clan he joined. The only uridium items were some lasers and shields that were earned through early quests, or saved up and purchased (some in shop, others in auction). His was not an FE ship and still had LF2s, no Iris, and maybe a Flax. Yesterday was the first time he had a chance to sit down and play, and logged maybe 2-3 hours total -- working ONLY quests. So, you can imagine his surprise when he tried logging in and was told he was caught using a bot! There was zero indication of bot use. He had no stockpiles of ammo or uridium. There was no massive XP gain. He didn't log 80+ hours a week. There was no PVP activity where he shot down some UFE Goli with X1 ammo. Nothing. So, what made him look like a botter to BP?

There comes a point in the witch hunt where innocents get burned at the stake. Maybe BP has hit that wall. So, for all of you out there with your UFE accounts that you've been working on for years -- look out. If a noob can be accused and convicted for bot use with zero indicators, so can you. Too many PVP kills? Too many 3,4, or 5 vs 1 battles that you've won? More than 6-8 hours online? How about not accepting someone's request? All of these can trip BP's radar and cause you to lose your accounts.

My family is 100% bot-free, but we all use the same computer (at different times, naturally) when we can because it's faster than our individual laptops. So, in having the same IP address are we in danger of losing our accounts too? It's very possible.

"A government is an entity which is, ironically, ungoverned."

As users of the game, some being paying users, I feel we have the right to know what methods were used in detection. In the US we have the 6th Amendment which gives anyone accused of a crime the right to face their accuser(s). I don't think that is an unfair thing to ask. Oh sure, you can send a message to BP about being banned unfairly and 99.9% of the time you get what you got on login -- "You got caught using a bot. End of story. Good bye." Is this a fair practice? Why are they not providing the users -- especially the one's who are pay-to-play -- a reason, and I mean a definitive reason, to be banned? "Because I said so" works with three year olds, not with adults who have paid for a service, in some cases for years. A user should have the ability -- the right -- to plead his or her case, see the evidence, and be judged. Otherwise, fairness gives way to totalitarianism. Those who were actually using a bot will more than likely suck it up and go away. Those that feel they have nothing to fear can fight and maybe even win and be reinstated. Either way BP has to back up their actions with facts and not accusations.

 

There's been a couple people on gb2 who got banned today who are well known to be considered legit players, even people who don't like them wouldn't accuse them of using bots etc.
Just posting this so you know that it doesn't appear to be a one off and your family member is probably not alone in this situation.

Hopefully some cases will be looked into, I think there is a high chance that at least a couple of them will be and once a problem has been found with 1 it can be searched and found for the others who have been affected with the same issue.

 

That's good to know. I figured when they say 1000+ players have been banned every few days SOMEONE has to be innocent.

 

as the bots are ever adapting to DOs detection system the methods are ever changing to detect these bots hell i heard one time they used bonus boxes that no one could see but a bot could pickup in the code so everyone collecting these invisible boxes would be flagged as a bot don't know if its true just rumor i heard. BOTS get built come out undetectable for a while till DO figures it out and bam added to the bot detection program i figure it would be easy to make a mistake with this program if they use like pattern detection like alot of people think as while im hunting i hit the same points on the mini map in every map its habit and there is days i could be on for 10 hours easy if event is cool most days less than an hour tho.

 

After reading through this thread after my post earlier today I started thinking about botting and what the real problem is with them. Personally, I think of them as I do [removed] -- I don't use it so I don't care about it. BUT....! I do see valid arguments on both sides of the fence.

For the botters that are UFE or close to it that have auto lock or other "hacks" that give them an unfair advantage in pvp. Yeah, these clowns are the worst. I'm not a pvp'er and I'd rather play the game alone. The need to be the King of The Hill is just stupid to me. It's a GAME!! Nobody cares how hard your Goli hits except you. So for these guys to need to cheat for the advantage I consider Lance Armstrong and other athletes who cheated for the edge to win. By all means, BAN THEM.

The other botters who use autoclickers (new term for me today!) so they don't time out in the Palli cloud, the 24/7 cloaked boxers, or the NPC killers that hang out in the lower maps and kill for XP and uri -- they don't bother me quite as much. Why? Well, here's why:

- Autoclickers in the Palli cloud so they can be afk all day and farm ore. Who cares. Pop them, get the XP and honor and move on. It's actually a great way to get some cred. That is, until you pop that level 35 who has his clan mark you as KOS. That is a possibility, but unlikely.

- 24/7 cloakers. Well, much like the guys in the Palli cloud, pop them and get the cred and move on. Yes, they're not doing the grind like the rest of us to buy the equipment they have. On the other hand, they're not getting XP. The credits they get is extremely low in comparison to NPC killing. The big downside is the uridium and ammunition they collect. But not everyone has a year or more to dedicate to a game in order to climb the ladder. Free to play players might never make it to UFE. The other players who invest their time and real money into the "honest" game are also getting an edge, albeit a legal one. You don't think box doublers and free repairs aren't a cheat? They are, but because they're sanctioned by DO but they're called perks. Tomato/tomato.

- NPC killers. Much like the cloakers and Palli farmers, these guys go to work and leave their bots to do the grind for them. Definitely not cool. But again, these guys are easy targets to pad your stats. I'm usually on a few times a day and see cloakers with PETs in the X-2 maps soaking up the boxes ALL DAY LONG, but on the lower maps I rarely see any ships killing NPCs. I'm usually the only ship on X-3 as I'm grinding away. I know they're out there, I just don't know if I've seen them.

- The PVP cheats. I'm not even FE yet, but I would agree this is the worst bot for obvious reasons. If the ship is UFE why bother getting an auto lock or 3rd configuration hack? Global chat would be on that in a heartbeat. A moderator would probably be called in to watch that ship, and in no time at all it should be banned. But seriously, to cheat like that would only be the mark of a poor player. It would be more profitable to go cube or go after ubers. It would be too obvious to have those kinds of hacks, even though they're out there, to want to use them.

I think the solution could be a few things. Moderators who really give a darn is one thing. To (dare I say) dumb down the system where climbing ranks doesn't take as long. One (sort of) recent example was the changing of the auction system to getting credits back if you were outbid. Remember those days? 16 million credits for an Iris, only to be outbid and lose all of it? That sucked. Now, the credits are returned so the player can try, and try again without having to either grind out another 16 mil or beg for it from a mega-clan. The once a week sales in the shop are good too, but those only mildly discount things that still take a fortune to purchase. You won't ever see LF-3s or BO-1s on sale. Ever. Grind baby, grind. A unilateral decrease in the cost of items would speed things along for many players.

The bans themselves are, ironically, bad for the game. This week alone has seen nearly 3000 players banned from various servers. Wow! That's great! What's the down side? Well, when you get the quest(s) to kill players from other companies and there aren't any to kill because you're a level 8-14 and the only ships available are the UFEs that would swat you down in two seconds. The servers are getting emptier every day. I'm on a large server, so when I'm noticing that outside of the PETs zipping by me collecting boxes I'm the only one on the map most of the time. This must be true on the other companies maps (and servers) as well. By eliminating boxers and NPC bots DO has managed to (sort of) shoot itself in the foot. When 3000 players are banned in one week, and that's nearly the equivalent of the entire population of a server like east coast US, I have to wonder where it will end. The herd is getting thin. Before you know it, all that will be left are those same 8-12 people in Global chat who hang out on the battle maps taunting each other and going pvp.

That's my two cent's worth anyway.

 

I read what you stated and i agree with what you have stated however, this will all fall on deaf ears because they dont care.

When they messed up this latest crappy masque event they didnt even apologise to us or acknowledge they made a mistake. Chat is overun with foreign jibberish and bullying but BP wont pay someone to monitor it. The way i see it, the more you care the more you lose - ive played on and off since 2008 and not one thing has changed about the ethics behind the game.

Im so bored of this game now, i said in an earlier post as i get closer to UFE the maps get more cramped and theres less to do. I still have not attempted these new quests and have no intention, the rewards are insulting and a waste of time.

 

A follow up to post #55 here.

As expected, DO sent the standard email stating bot users are not tolerated. I don't believe the person answering the email did any research into the subject or perhaps that person doesn't have the authority to change things. No advice was given. Just a standardized chain letter that basically says "Don't wanna hear it. Go away."

It was a two week old, low time, no drone having, zip for ammo, credits and uridium, only did quests, level 10 account. No big deal really. But a matter of principle is involved here. Someone was trying to get into a game that's been starving for new blood and two weeks later gets banned for cheating with no evidence in the player's logs or supplies. DO is so sure they're right that it's beyond arrogant. To them there is no possibility that they made a mistake.

He gave up and went back to XBox. Way to go DO!

Does that sound fair to you?

“The truest characters of ignorance are vanity, and pride and arrogance.”
~Samuel Butler

 

Yh ill probs get banned next heres why:

I log on to do some cubes (bearing in mind my server is empty) and cant get any because DO have made so many upgreades available that now everyone is soloing cubes. So im reduced to boxing as its the next best source of income, this is becoming a daily occurance and im really really really getting bored now. I cant imagine whats its like on other servers, cubes must be a rare treat.

Nice going DO, made your money with upgrades and left the fundamental mechanics of the game behind - genius. Its gonna be bye bye from me soon because this game is no longer exiting or fun and is in need of a serious injection of life.

 

why you say ur gonna get banned tho?

 

im happy to see that bp are banning cheaters but i dont think they are doing enough. playing pvp yesterday. i play on decent gaming tower. not a crappy laptop. 60 mb internet i relog everytime my in game ram usage goes above 500mb and i play using 48" 4k screen. this 4k screen gives me a huge in game advantage. ie i can see enemy ships from a mile away, if they are uncloaked, really is some impressive distance. now i have same problems with cloakers as everyone else does. i still have to click them. with 4k screen i have larger map area so this can be harder. is a downside.

anyway. my point is i am getting players that can outrange me on my 4k screen. players that can lock me so far away that i get you escaped attack ping on my screen 30 times before i actually see and can lock the ship myself with my super range that 4k provides. now i lock these players with no lag. (once they enter my screen) but i am to led to believe that these players are locking legitimately and i am suffering lag.

what a load of crap.

bigpoint need to sort out the auto locker problem. everyone knows these tools exist. bigpoint knows they exist please focus on that rather than botting noobs. a lot of people stopped botting and just use the pvp tools. i can name many....

 

Probably for expressing an opinion that gets picked up by a follower.

 

There are autolocks of course but nowdays you can zoom out your screen so you will see like 10x more space at once. I use that when hunt to get lock on people that I would not see in normal resolution.