Testing: Ship Customization

Discussion in 'Game Discussion & Feedback' started by Solid_Eye, May 11, 2016.

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  1. I am not crazy about ship customization. While its nice to see things don't stay stagnate, some things don't need to be changed. For years we have gone with having a number of hangers to work with, but now having separation in ships and designs just makes me say NO.

    That said, if, and I guess I should say when it is implimented, do it a server at a time so you can see if it is working or not and do it more than a couple of hours before you are going home for the day. Of course from loading it at the same time really helps me stress how there is basically one main server for the game and then other servers that are mainly for user information and time for that server.
    -uberpaul- likes this.
  2. I completely agree on the changes the new hangar system will bring. all the designs that give no advantage at the moment classed as cosmetic will be used and people can play around much more than they can now, so an enforcer goli can now be equipped with the 'frozen goli design' which previously was an absolute waste, like many other designs just gathering dust ATM.
    xuhu99 likes this.
  3. Was this actually available on the last TEST? The TEST before that you could only assign the "Skins" to the BARE ship, meaning you could not customize anything except a GOLIATH ship (not a Veteran, Bastion, Venom, or any other design that had been turned into a ship in the new Hangar) so a frosted Goliath was all you could have not a frosted Enforcer as you are saying.
    PSK~SUNDANCE likes this.
  4. Yes I believe this is the direction that they will go once the new hangar system is in place as this is why they are changing the system in the first place. once they have done the initial implementation of the new system they will be able to do much more than now.
  5. this game will just be heading in one direction, and that's the direction of all the gullable players wanting all of this rubbish implemented,
    do is continuing a trend and that is charging a lot for something that brings no benefit to any1 in the game, yet no1 can see there are just wasting all there money for nothing.
    I personally do not blame do for doing this, they've creating something that is gonna cost the players a hell of a lot of money and no1 can see it.
    I find it funny because the players that are encouraging this rubbish are the ones who are actually destroying the game. not darkorbit or bigpoint, so when this game finally comes to its end and rests, just sit and think, how did we manage to drive away so many players and destroy a game that was once well established.
    but as I say , hey ho, onwards and downwards.
    -uberpaul- likes this.
  6. KrisKelvin

    KrisKelvin User Team DarkOrbit

    Let me jump in a bit here.

    The Surgeon case, which many people bring up, is indeed the very rare case where it's become less convenient, and, as I said during the stream, we'll look into that particular case. Wanted to mention it, because it sound like an example of many cases, whereas in fact there is Surgeon and Pusat, which stand out. However, those ships are also really unique.

    On the favorite ships topic - we might have shown it a bit better, in the stream, since some players didn't notice it, but there is indeed such a feature, and it's already implemented, and will be coming live with the Ship customization. You can "star" any ship, and then warp them in and also switch fast between them.

    As for configuration save - I can repeat my stream statement - we will be looking into that. While it's not very trivial - we hear concerns and requests and will try to see what we can do. Our current transfer solution is a fast reaction to players feedback, and we will be definitely refining and iterating on it. We are not going anywhere and I can assure you, we are not fully happy until the you are fully happy.

    The other point was about the extra Hangars, which were purchased earlier.

    I want to be very clear on this one - the ultimate goal of ours is to make the game better, smoother and more convenient to play. We will be changing systems along the way, and the deeper we go - the more players will be disturbed, because things will change, and some redundant and inconvenient parts will be reworked and removed. It is a natural process of any game evolution. So when a system was working in some specific way for years - like it was making players to pay for hangars - the players who purchased hangars really used them all the way up until now, and when we change the system - they will have the full advantage of the new system as well.

    Each time we enhance something or make it more accessible and/or reduce prices - we hear voices of the players who think they should be compensated, because they bought something long ago and it was "more expensive" and "it's not fair". However all the players who purchased something, have not just spend the money, they also used that thing/feature, and in case of DarkOrbit for years and years. And now, when we come up with a new system - the would ask why did we make them waste their resources. I'm not sure that purchasing something and then using it actually counts as a waste.

    The same goes for the different price reductions. We are working to make the game more fair and accessible, which often means reviews of current pricing. But some players got something at a higher price, but got it earlier.

    So, in conclusion, I'm really glad that all the concerns are voiced and raised in these discussions, and if we have been unfair to some players we'll recognize the mistake and do our best to make amends, we really don't want to be in a position, where we have to hold back positive changes, enhancements and clean-ups because we didn't foresee in the past, that we'll have better ideas in the future.

    We will be doing out best to make the game more awesome, and there is no better help we can get than our dedicated players' help.

    Thank you for your passion and have a nice weekend :)
  7. KrisKelvin

    KrisKelvin User Team DarkOrbit

    I would really love to hear your reasoning behind this.

    We have removed an extra fee, that players had to pay to use any ship - that's hangars.

    We have answered the feedback and introduced a quick way of equipment transfer, which (as I mentioned) we'll be looking at and enhancing with our players' help.

    We have made it possible to customize favorite ships with cosmetic designs, which do not bring any game-play advantage.

    With several reworks we introduced - like new LF-4 Day, new Galaxy Gate bonus days the super-rare items become more and more accessible.

    What exactly do you perceive as a charge for nothing?
  8. Thank you for this, however, in response to the REDUCTION OF COSTS, I understand the players that bought the Hangars EARLY in the game not being compensated, but what about those who bought several just before the reduction of cost? Do you think it was FAIR that they spent more for 1 additional Hangar than the person 1 week later who could by all 10 for less than his ONE, or even worse the ones that got FREE Hangars as they were given away (assuming you had room for another Hangar) with every ship purchased for the next 2 weeks. Most of the people I saw wanting the "compensation" were the ones that got the BIG HIT just before the price was reduced, I was one of those unlucky few to be hit with this scenario.

    Changes need to be made to the game, I agree, but at what cost? New players, < level 10 have no use for the ORE for assembly as they can not get the good stuff from the upper maps, but they do need the credits they can get from CARGO Drops. But now you give us an Ultra Booty Day and take all of the Cargo from BOSS NPC's and turn it into Booty Chests or A.S. Ore is this really fair to those players? You create Event Missions requiring us to collect ungodly amounts of Raw Minerals from NPC's and yet you take the source of these away from us with a Booty Chest again I ask is this fair to these players? How hard is it to make an ADDITION to the Cargo Drop of these items instead removing them altogether? Use the current graphics but allow us to collect the cargo AND the other stuff not be ripped off by not getting at least credits for the ammo we wasted killing the NPC. Yes the UFE don't care about the cargo but the lower level players do and they depend on this source of revenue to get their ship upgraded to defend against the UFE bully that D O seems to be unable to control.

    As stated by ЌΦŊVΣŊŦIΦŊ.†, your player base is leaving for several reasons, Playability is the biggest reason, but add the failure of a NEW person to even enjoy getting started in the game and possibly get skilled enough to know what is happening when he is attacked and popped in 2 shots (by his own company because they are a MCC clan member), you have enough NEW blood and returning OLD blood to return most of the servers to a good population IF the proper fixes were put into place.

    The choice is yours, continue to add features that cause distress to the game or functionality of our experience in same, or fix what is not working correctly and make sure the new features do not create the major issues we have seen from every Update implemented since the Kuiper Gate Fiasco. Every update sends more people packing than it attracts back to the game.
  9. KrisKelvin

    KrisKelvin User Team DarkOrbit

    As I said, we'll be looking into specific reasonable concerns.

    Unfortunately, while we want everybody to be happy - there will be always special cases and upset people.

    I agree, that the closer to the change you have chosen to purchase something, the more unfair it feels, and that's why we are now announcing changes a lot earlier and doing a lot more testing in advance.

    We are working on specific measures to make the early game more convenient, and I'm glad that you point this out. Many of the changes that we do actually work also for new players. Whenever we do a system clean-up - it becomes easier for new players to understand and use the system.

    The question of cargo drops and the new player's dependence is a good point and we are talking about this with our analyst literally as I write this post. We will look into this specifically and I'll get back with some insights, maybe on Twitch and maybe here as well.

    Modifying drops is not that easy, but that's a good idea, and eventually we might come to that.

    I would really like to hear, what do you consider "proper fixes". As I said, we are working on enhancements of the early game, and we'll elaborate, once we have more solid info. The argument is valid, we need to take a better care of new players.

    Unfortunately in many cases fixing things which are not working correctly often created unforeseen problems, and we do out best to solve them as fast as possible. I don't want to diminish the problems, but I hope that everybody understands, that, just as our dedicated players, we want what's best for the game. And I think you have seen, that we are not hiding, when it comes to admitting and correcting mistakes.

    We do work on further optimizations to make sure that the updates are as smooth as possible, but we definitely need your help as well in calling out when we do something wrong.

    Thank you, and do keep the fair criticisms coming. :)
  10. The star option only lets you save your ships so they appear at the top of the page. The star option does not help players equip their ships faster or easier. All ships have different slots so players would have to click on manage then click delete configs then click back then click on their new ship then click activate then click manage then manually equip their new chosen ship. So how is this any different than what we are doing right now?

    I will tell you, it will take longer for people change ships and equip them with this new system.

    The only good thing about this new system is that you can change from one skin to another of the same ship. Not being funny but we can already do that right now with the current system by using the drop down menu. Also with the current system we can change into the surgeon from another goli design and pusat from another vengi design easier. You said you will be looking into sorting this problem out with the new system.

    So may I ask, why bring out a new system that you know does not meet peoples needs and also needs fixing already, when the current system works better?

    Leave the current system in place and work on the delete, load and save features. Please...
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
    KrisKelvin likes this.
  11. ok
    ok kris kelvin I will give you my reasoning behind this.
    ive played this game for a long time on several servers and no im not a free player, I do use my money on this game, but I will at a reasonable rate.

    We have removed an extra fee, that players had to pay to use any ship - that's hangars.
    ok, so you removed the fee, well not quite because only the first few are accessible with credits fair enuff then it goes into uridium fair enuff again. not too expensive. but its not the hangers I am aimimg at in particular.

    We have answered the feedback and introduced a quick way of equipment transfer, which (as I mentioned) we'll be looking at and enhancing with our players' help.
    I wasn't aiming at this either.

    We have made it possible to customize favorite ships with cosmetic designs, which do not bring any game-play advantage.
    ok, you have made it possible to customise favourite ships. lol, not entirely true, is it kriskelvin, all the option for ship customisation and cosmetic design have only been made to paying players, i.e those who have the abilitie to kill things with ease, yes I aiming at the fe and ufe paying players, because credit players will not be able to afford all the customisable and cosmetic add on for there ships, its all aimed at the higher players,, you've even introduced old credit ships back for money purchase, and a possibilities of more credit version going different colors for a price, so again aimed at the paying players, so those credit ships are no longer aimed at credit players. and none of the cosmetic items are available for credit players its all aimed at the paying player, so don't for one second tell me you have listened to your players, you have filterd the replies and listend to the players who pump the most amount of money into this game. which is causing this game to spiral downwards.
    all the cosmetic items in galaxy gates are impossible for credit players to reach. so again not really possible for a credit player to customise there ships, or am I missing something,.
    all the cosmetic item you've added are for a great cost and don't bring any advantage what so ever, so why are they not for credits, umm, I can tell you why, its because there are too many players on this game who are pushing it in the wrong direction.
    THIS IS NOT A FREE GAME, no matter how you describe it, its free to log on, but if you actually wanna enage in decent gameplay you have to delve deep into your wallet
    you've even done it with the uridium page adding percentages on the the uridium , when infact its never change, you've just made it look like people are getting extra when there not.
    so all the cosmetic are for nothing apart for your own self benefit because it benefits no one apart from bigpoints bank account.
    where are all the option for the credit players to have cosmetic items, oh yes I forgot there not important, and that's why there none or a very few on the servers. because they've taken one look and went hell no,

    when this game first started it was playable as a credit player, these days you get killed in one shot. that's a fact, old do you could at least have a little fight back. now nothing.

    so is any of the credity items gonna be getting credit cosmetic designs, let me answer it for you, NO, because they are not thought of,your only taking information from positive feedback, and not listening to the negative.

    With several reworks we introduced - like new LF-4 Day, new Galaxy Gate bonus days the super-rare items become more and more accessible.
    no, you haven't, you've created a simple pop up saying you have and every1s falling for it, I spent over 700 keys on gb1 and received 4 lf4s, now that's not more accessible, ive also used 340 keys on gb2 and received 1 lf4, that's not more and more accessible, and again galaxy gate bonus days lol, only accessible for money paying player, as no credit player will build galaxy gates anytime to get these items aswell. everything this game introduces is for bigger and paying players, so yeah its a rework to kill off the last remaining credit players.

    What exactly do you perceive as a charge for nothing?
    ok, so I don't know how those little minds at do work, but I perceive this as exactly what it, it is a charge for nothing., the cosmetic design are available throught payment only they offer no advantage apart from a poorly designed cosmetic product, so if there only cosmetic, why charge money for them, if there cosmetic then they add no advantage to anyone so they should be available to everyone, if it adds an advantage then fair enought, charge for it, but a cosmetic design that just enhances a look of something and adds no difference to anything why would someone in the right mind buy something like this, it just encourages the developers to bring more cosmetic items out to benefit themselves.
    a credit player having a cosmetic and customisable ship that has no benefit should be available to all.
    but no, lets just encourage all the bigger ships and just ignore all the credit players.

    did I explain this well enuff for you to understand.
  12. are u having a laugh? most if not all players are unhappy with the way the game is going, update after update brings problem after problem which bp seem not bothered or worse not capable of fixing, let me give u a clue..Gaming is supposed to be fun..Do u think dark orbit is fun? if it was do u think u would have page after page full of members moaning about the playability? no we would all be happily playing wouldnt we..sometimes i get more help from google than i do from support lol how bad is that!
  13. xuhu99

    xuhu99 User

    Then what about those that want the 5% more damage but want to have frozen design at the same time? How can you possibly get the effects of enforcer and frozen goliath at the same time with current hangar system? How does the new system not solve this problem? I don't understand what you mean by "but we can already do that right now with current system by using drop down menu." Not only that but people don't change ships that often. You try to make it seem like an issue with changing from surgeon to other goliath design but how often do people change from surgeon to enforcer? Like never. When they get surgeon they stick with surgeon as their actively used goliath design. What about those that already spent their $$ equipping multiple hangars? Wouldn't your solution cause them to feel like they wasted their money?
  14. I am sure that they can put in place another box that has a little C in it like they have done with the drones and the pet, without having to change the whole hanger system. Also any "good" player uses the exalted goli design for doing gates, the veteran goli design for finishing off missions, the influence goli designs for 7% extra damage or the 5 skill designs that are used for defending or attacking a CBS or fighting a massive battle. There's eight examples for you. And for those people that spend $$ on equipping multiple hangers, they will not have a problem with either the current or new hanger system. But I don't think there are many people that have more than 1 hanger filled with all the best equipment. They, I think are the minority of the Uber elites. So go and do some research, think about it, then come back to me when you have something intelligent to say.

    I am trying to point out that this new hanger system will not work as good as they are letting on, don't come crying to me when it goes live and the game breaks.
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  15. xuhu99

    xuhu99 User

    Putting a little C only addresses one of the issues. The new hangar system is supposed to address multiple issues. One of the issues you can't accept is that surgeon is more like a different ship altogether than it is like a Goliath design because of its slots. Same goes for Pusat. This new hangar makes them into different ships like they always should have been. In other words, not being able to transfer from surgeon to enforcer isn't a 'side effect', but rather deliberate part of the initial planning. For example LoW gate is a group gate, so there was a later update making LoW gate more of a group gate. Was the LoW update pointless? No! With surgeon as a different ship, DO can create other ships with different bonuses but same number of slots as generator like a ship with 12% more shields, 6% more honor, and 6% more exp yet with he additional generator just like surgeon has. This new surgeon type ship would be switchable with surgeon and this new type of ship could also carry have cosmetic interchanges. Let's do some mathematical calculations. so surgeon gives 1.06 times the damage as well and 1.06 times the honors and exp. Let's not forget if you deal 6% more damage you kill things faster which gives additional honor and exp. so with surgeon about 1.06*1.06=1.1236 so about 12% more honor AND exp compared to 1.10 times or 10% more of either exp OR honor. Someone will not switch to an exalted to do a gate if they knew 1.06 times more damage also gives more honor and experience. If they are using veteran for missions because they want experience. They would not forfeit about 12% gain in experience from doing gates in exalted when they could be using surgeon the whole time. Influence does less than 1% more damage than surgeon yet surgeon goes faster so it can get more shots either by catching up to runaway ships faster or having more shields so it lasts longer to fire more shots. You would need more than 100 shots for less than 1% to be equivalent the expected damage of a single shot. Lots of fights don't even last that long. Your 5 skill designs may be the most legitimate case you presented. Even then some are almost seldom used. I think the people that spent on multiple hangars will find issue with your solution but will be fine with DO current hangar and new hangar system. Those people are not as few as you make them out to be and they contribute a far larger share of $$ than proportional to their population size. They keep the $$ and DO alive so their opinions deserves far more respect than you give them.
  16. The only thing the increased damage would give you more honor and experience on would be SHARED NPC's as these are computed on damage delivered. Regular NPC's have a set Honor and Exp value and with the surgeon you get an extra 6% BOOST to that value, it is not affected by the extra damage done you just get to kill them faster.
  17. xuhu99

    xuhu99 User

    killing them 1.06 times faster means you get more experience and honor in the same amount of time as you would without damage boost. Not only that but credits, uridium, ores, etc also drop faster for killing them faster.
  18. They die faster but there is no additional increase, you still get what you were going to get. It is like shooting them with x4 ammo instead of x1 they die 4 times faster cost you million times more (spending Uridium instead of credits) in ammo cost and you get nothing for the extra expenditure other than a faster kill, but yes you can move on to the next NPC faster. If the expense can outweigh the gain, which it does not you are just wasting the good ammo. Just like those farming Cubes, I find I spend more buying the SAB to kill the shields and x2 to kill the Cube, than I gain from soloing the Cube (doubt I could solo them with x1 ammo).

    I will stick with my x1 killing and accept the 6% increased damage and 6% increased Exp and Honor from the kill and take any other extras I might be able to get and KNOW I am not multiplying my rewards by 12% just because I am killing them a little bit faster.
  19. xuhu99

    xuhu99 User

    Actually speed of killing does make a difference. For example using Eco 10s with x1 is not as efficient (in terms of credits per uridum) as simply not using Eco 10s while using x1. Even though the ratio of credits spent per uridium earned using eco 10s worse than the ratio of credits spent per uridum without eco 10s, people still use eco 10s because they want to farm uridium faster. If speed of farming was negligible like you make it to be you might as well never use lf3s if you had a single lf4. You would just use that 1 lf4 to maximize your amo spent per reward gained ratio. Although using precious x4 may be a single case where it's not as wise to hit higher, in the case of surgeon vs exalted in gates, using surgeon is more logical. Unlike x4 which is consumable, a surgeon does not wear out. The cost of using a surgeon is the opportunity cost of not being able to use an exalted and using an exalted gives the cost of not being able to use surgeon during that gate. Whoever is trying to spam gates for honor is almost certainly trying to gain rank fast. Thus it is logical to deduct that speed is the priority rather than credit spent per honor gained ratio like you are suggesting. Ultimately the surgeon not only gives honor faster, but also faster experience, credits, uridium, ores, etc so a surgeon would better fulfill the purpose. That would make the opportunity cost of not using a surgeon far higher than the opportunity cost of not using an exalted especially for a "good" player. With you last sentence you admit to using a surgeon. While your rewards per ammo spent is not increased by 12%, you still have to farm in a finite time frame. If we compare 1 time frame where you farm without 6% extra damage, 6% honor, etc vs another time frame where you do have 6% extra damage, 6% honor, etc; you will in fact see clearly more than 6% reward difference between the time frames. Go farm bks for an hour using goliath with no design then another hour with surgeon, I guarantee you will see more than the limited 6% difference you are suggesting. Even better... Farm bks an hour with exalted and another for an hour with surgeon and see which gives both honor and ranking faster.
    Last edited: May 22, 2016

  20. You say that one of the issues that I can't accept is that the "surgeon is more like a different ship"
    Firstly, sorry to burst your bubble but the surgeon IS a goli design, trying to change the facts to strengthen your argument just makes you look like you do not know what you are talking about. Also if it is not a 'side effect' "but rather deliberate part of the initial planning". Why are the DEV team looking into the possibility of being able transfer equipment into a surgeon from another goli design.

    Before you answer that, I will do it for you. The DEV team thought that they could get away with players not being able to transfer equipment into a surgeon, I guess it would make their jobs easier. but lots of people have pulled them up about it. So they are looking into it.

    Using exalted in gates is better than using surgeon. Using the veteran to finish off a mission is better than using surgeon. In gates you get a set number of npcs, you don't get extra rewards for killing them faster or hitting them harder. It does not matter how you pop the npcs, as long as they pop.

    It does not matter what ammo you use the results are the same the only thing that is different is that with the surgeon you can kill an npc faster, but I will settle for more honor and experience thanks.

    You do a gate in a surgeon and I will do the same gate in the exalted, lets see who makes the most honor.
    You finish off a mission in the surgeon and I will finish off the same mission in the veteran, I wonder who will make the most experience.

    Here, let me try some mathematical calculations as well.

    10%-6%=4% more Honor.;)
    10%-6%=4% more experience.;)

    As for the other goli designs that I mentioned that players do use and I see them every time I play. Does that mean everyone is wrong and you are the only person that knows the truth, which is that everyone should use the surgeon design for every gate, mission and event there is, just to make it easier when the new hanger system goes live. The surgeon design is a good design but it is not one size fits all.

    All the DEV team need to do is to give us the ability to delete, load and save configs. Also give us a little box with little C in it so we can customize our ships. Simples.

    As far as the multi hanger players that are about, they do get a say but should not get more of a say than anyone else. We should all be treated equally no matter how much $$ we pay. All I said was that multi hanger players are in the minority, which means there are more players without fully equipped multi hangers then there are with.

    Sorry WHAT!:confused::confused::confused:
    Please could you use paragraphs, it makes it easier to read. Understand what you are going on about, not really, but easier to read none the less.

    I would sacrifice the extra damage that a surgeon does for the extra honor an exalted gives when in gates any day of the week.
    I would use the surgeon to do a mission, but would finish off the mission with the veteran, Like I stated in post #54.
    So changing from a surgeon into another goli design and back again is most definitely needed and we should be able to do so easily with the new hanger system. That is what the DEV team are trying to do. To make it easier to be able to transfer equipment from one design to another. Unfortunately from what I have seen of it, it will not work as good as what they are making out.

    If you really look at the new system it is not hard to see that they are making all these changes, but not only are the changes the same as what we have now but just the other way around, the new system does not work as well as the current one. I truly wish other people including the DEV team could see this problem, before it goes live.
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
    HelpMeHelpYou likes this.
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