[UI] Spearhead HP improvements

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by ¤hüñ‡ë®¨¦MKЦ¨¤, May 17, 2015.

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  1. Hello,

    With the introduction of the Pusat design, Spearhead became useless. Now, I know you will say: "It is a scout ship .." - true, it is. But, how often you find people boxing in it? Aren't PvP maps full of these ships boxing around? Shouldn't all Spearhead players have a chance of escaping? Cause lately, I am getting shot by Pusat players that hit 110k-150k. Well, in 3 shots they got me down. I didn't even had time to react on their damage. Spearhead, and the other non-uridium ships became inferior with the introduction of this design. But, let's stay on the topic, Spearhead.

    As far as I know, Pusat has 125k base HP. Also, it become the second ship in the game in firepower (having a bit lower damage than Goliath), but the equal speed of Spearhead. Till this designs was introduced, we, the Spearhead people had a chance to survive. But now, DO introduced a ship that can chase you down with the same speed, and you can't out damage them. That's why I think we need change on the Spearhead.

    Spearhead base HP: 100k.
    New Spearhead base HP: 140k.
    With Ship hull I (+10k HP) and Ship hull II(+50k HP), making base 200k HP.
    If we add Hearth/Moth formation (+20% HP) = total 240k HP (compared to now, 180k HP with Hearth/Moth formation, without any boosters).

    In the end, I would like to ask for your opinions :)

    Update 1:
    Another idea, instead of HP increase, is to make the Spearhead ability Ultimate cloack to be used in battle.

    When used in battle, the ability lasts 4 seconds (or maybe 3 seconds?), and has 10 minutes cooldown. If used in normal occasions, before someone attacked me, it has the same duration and cooldown as usual. :)

    Regards
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
    -AdamantiumDragon- likes this.
  2. Finally someone who noticed this +1 from me and btw isnt spearhead a scout ship ? then why is pusat equal speed as spearhead even though it is no where near a scout ship? They should buff the speed of spearhead or nerf the pusat speed, I dont mean to hijack your thread :/
     
  3. Hm, the speed of the Pusat has already been lowered, cause it was the fastest ship (600 speed if I am correct). That's why I don't think they will lower the speed more. In that case, we need improvements on the Spearhead.

    Back on your post, what you have written about scout ship definition is true. From the other games, and overall knowledge, scout object is something that is really fast, but has low health, attack and defense. In this case, we have a scout ship - Spearhead, which has the best speed, but has low attack (5 lasers). But, with the Pusat they are making another scout ship (?) that has the 2nd firepower in game with the same speed as Spearhead. That logic simply doesn't work for me, that's why I ask at least HP increase on Spearhead.

    Thank you for the feedback. :)

    PS. Feel free to write your idea here too, we can merge it in one if the idea is good. :)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  4. I think they should buff the Spearheads speed buy 10 or 20 and it will be an usefull ship again :p
     
  5. As I said above, I doubt they will do it, but as [=The-Juggernaut=] said, if it can be done why not. Instead of increasing the HP, increase in speed can be the work around too!

    The explanation why I doubt DO will increase the speed of the Spearhead is simple: it will be too fast compared to the other ships, so hunting Spearhead in a non-Spearhead ship (except Pusat) will be real hard. :)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
    -AdamantiumDragon- likes this.
  6. Bakjam

    Bakjam User

    This has been notified by me a long time ago, just not in the mood to search for the topic. Anyway: I agree, I sold my spearhead because the ultimate cloak isn't gonna save you now since you can't use it while being attacked and since pussat has same speed as spearhead, you can never escape once attacked.

    But I get it now, the pussat design is the ultimate design for UFE, in smashing weak and low hp people for their daily dose of ''Dopamine'' (look it up). Here on GE2, I only see them snipering but as soon as they get hit they emp and are gone within seconds. I think that the design really outbalanced the game and that more and more people will be flying in it soon. There is just no catching them with 588 speed, once they emp. Especially with all those gygertheralls or wathever they're called, I would be so thankfull if this event would finally end. Moreover, collecting palladium here is IMPOSSIBLE now, since almost 24/7 the're are pussat hunters basically guarding it and the FE's don't stand a chance.

    Anyway, of to the solutions now, rather than the problem. Giving the spearhead more HP won't solve a thing if you ask me, it will only take slightly longer but since those pussats can hit insanely hard, you will eventually still die. The only solution that I can come up with is to upper it's base speed to 380, or even higher to make it reach a speed of at least 600.

    And of course, there is EMP, there is DCR, there are slowdown mines but still! 588 is just way to OP and all those debuffs are way to expensive, especially for the FE's. How can you possibly upgrade or get stronger in any other way if you have to buy EMP / DCR all the time, if you can't shoot a few kristallons or pick up 15 palladium without getting shot. Bigpoint doesn't seem to accept that not everyone wants to pay. In the beginning (january 2014) I though it was possible to become strong without having to spend thousands of euro's, but more and more I'm starting to doubt about wether it's the one that has the most skills, or the biggest wallet that will eventually faint. To new people who start this game I would instantly say: you don't stand a chance. So sad that ''Xblaster'' had to quit.

    Some day...
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2015
  7. I do perfectly understand you. I am still in my Spearhead, but it is true that when I get attacked by a Pusat, no matter what I do I die. Having more HP will let me last longer and maybe have a bit more options to try to escape. That's the point of my idea. The reality is that you won't be able to do much again, but we may have a chance not to die from 2 Pusat hits.

    And I have to add that I don't agree on the Pusat design at all, have posted a thread in the Speaker's corner about how the design will debalance the game, but still, the design is live.. That's why I don't talk about Pusat anymore, I am just trying to make some other ship stand a chance.

    Thank you for the feedback, and sorry if you felt this as an duplicate thread, I didn't found anything similar on the forum right now. :)
     
  8. Increasing HP wont do much change, a pusat chasing down a spear will smash it 100%, the pusat got the firepower of a goli and can nail the spearhead hard while the other will not even be able to give a scratch or worse, it got no where to hide. And why the hell is a Hunting Ship as fast as a Scout ship? I cant guess what DO is up to here. The spear and pusat got same speed, both are 588, when you put on pusat design, it lowers your base speed of vengie. And yeah they should increase both HP and Speed of the Spear. If they dont I want back my refund, I myself is a spear lover and very disappointed to see a ship as fast as me and got more hp and 3 times more firepower. >.>
     
  9. It is true that it won't change much, but we will still have a chance to try to EMP or something to escape the Pusat. At the moment, I am getting 2 shots from Pusat and I am dead (I have 27PP, most focused on defensive line). :) Most of them are hitting 150k+ damage, which is insane for that speed. :eek:
     
  10. Bakjam

    Bakjam User

    No thanks, it is always good to mention forgotten topics again, in my opinion. Anyway, if pussat uses moth at your spearhead, with about 50K combo and missiles and stuff (considering the pussat is not on a suicide config), you will still die preaty quickly. Of course there is EMP / DCR but that is so expensive. I liked the idea of running away without needing anything. I sacrificed HP and firepower for speed in my spear. I could outrun anything expect an veng lightning but even then i could still use my ability. That was so great about spearhead. Pussat design indeed will outbalance the game if you ask me. Here on GE2 it is already happening. I see pussats everywhere and they are only snipering. As soon as we try to return some fire they emp + cloak and run. This ruins the game as i now will always need an vengenace lightning in my group to catch up, other ships will get less atractive and eventually ''group-play'' will be gone. Which will be the end of the game if you ask me.

    Agreed, as stated above.

    Indeed siko, spearhead doens't stand a chance anymore. I have to go and buy lightning now to escape those dirty pussats :I.
     
  11. jackknife

    jackknife User

    yeah the ww are out for their fix and they don't care if it's a new player or not they just want to kill everything they can uFe in a pusat with a fully loaded pet destroys everything and then can run from another uFe ....... balance yes nerf the spearhead
     
  12. I totally agree with your post, and I do understand the current situation. I still like the Spearhead, although I get shot a lot by suicide Pusats running on the PvP maps and camping the hell out of the players trying to box. I still think something needs to be done, and this is why I raised up this thread.

    Suggest what you thing, please, feel free to. If you think I should add more speed on my first post, I will do so. :) This is meant to be open thread for all to give advices/opinions, not just me sharing my thoughts.
     
  13. I say no to the spear heads hp increase. It does not need it. Your not suppose to fight in the ship period, if your chased by a pusat just use your ultimate cloak its your fault if you cant use the spearhead abilities like extra radar range. The pusat cant "chase" down a spearhead anyhow since they have the same speed. You need to react faster on the maps instead of zoning out.
     
  14. Well, you suggest that after using my ultimate cloack, I should make a pause of 5 minutes so I have it back before going on box again, just because someone wants to camp my maps? :)

    PS. I never wrote that with the HP increase I could fight back. Please, read careful my posts before posting. I said that we need a bit more HP to have a better chance to escape, not to fight back!
     
  15. Bakjam

    Bakjam User

    An HP increase isn't gonna give a spearhead any more chance against a pussat IN BATTLE. Spearhead is a scout. Spearhead has low HP already, and due to same speed as pussat you can't make curves in a map without being shot again. Furthermore it takes a long time before you can actually use the cloak after you've been hit. All that adds up to a not so usefull design after all now. Also the double minimap range doesn't always work (enemys / cloaks or cooldown / duration).

    If no HP is added than i would at least like to see a proper speed of 600
     
  16. If more HP wont help you in a fight, as you said above, then this whole thread you created has thus been rendered invalid by your own claim. The spear head is a scout ship. Not a lone boxing ship, not a lone running ship a scout, it is purpose to be used in groups.

    If your miss using the ship its self then that just happens to be your problem. The ship does not need to be boosted it as where it stands now. It does not need any more speed also. Being able to out run everything in the universe does not make the reason for the pusat being created. THe vengeance was always used to slightly counter spearheads but could never keep up. If you have been hit you wont be able to outrun it anyhow the whole object is to cloak or jump without being hit. People are just looking for get out of hell cards.

    Main reason all these tools to slow down players a created to try and keep them from running. and you can still out maneuver the pusat i have outran vengies in my Goliath before. you need some luck and some skill.
    He post was not necessarily off topic he merely stated, that you want the hp boost because your afraid to pvp which is still on topic because it replies to your idea. Although your post might be slightly more off-topic then his post is. Your doing the job of the moderators because even if this is your post i do not thin you have the power to tell someone to delete his or her post.
     
    [-КАТЮША-] likes this.
  17. Thank you for your arguments, don't go off topic. And yes, his post is off topic, and he doesn't have the right to judge me if I am afraid of PvP or not. I have stated a clear idea on my first post, and keep that on topic.

    Back on topic, there is no skill to out run a ship with the same speed that is chasing you. How much you want you can run, in the end they will always be on your back, meaning it is hard to escape. At the moment, DO created another scout ship with the 2nd firepower in game. Well, that de-balanaces the Spearhead for sure.

    You can talk about the Spearhead that it is meant to be group ship or I don't know what, but who said that? Can't I be a scout on my own? Since when scouts needs to be in group? Isn't your PvP map full of Spearheads? You find it new someone boxing in Spearhead, so you complain about boxing? What is the satisfaction of the game if everyone just shoots you in 2 shots? What is the satisfaction in the game if after the Pusat going live, you can't box in the PvP maps without getting shots 10 times in an hour?

    With this HP increase, if you are too worried, you will take us down in 3 shots, instead of 2. Not a big deal I guess? We, the dead people, would have one-two seconds more to try to react on Pusat damage, that's all. And yes, don't worry, we won't be able to fight back cause we don't have damage, we have only 5 lasers. So yeah, Pusat will still win it in the end, if we don't escape in 3 seconds. :)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  18. As you said before if its no big deal why add the HP boost to the spearhead. Dark orbit Devs said it was a group ship when the Spearhead Aegis and Citadel when they were first introduced. Secondly if the game had as many as players as in 2009-2010 you would not be able to box anyhow. I never "complained" about boxing in the first place. I said you need to react faster it does not need an increase of anything because you seem to be trying to compensate for lack of skill while flying the ship. "
    What is the satisfaction in the game if after the Pusat going live, you can't box in the PvP maps without getting shots 10 times in an hour?" The pusat is like fractional different then suicide Goliath and those hit much harder. so it makes no differance if your hit by a vengi or goli or pusat (pusat vengeance design) spearhead does not need a speed increase or a hp increase.


    Secondly Please stop saying don't go off-topic. I do not need your constant reminders, I half already read forums rules.
     
  19. I don't like your idea.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see from the graphic above, the spearhead is a recon ship. The ship was designed in order for groups to have a scout who would check how many players are in 1 particular area and to be able to provide support for other ships in the outfit. On my server, Spearheads are often used to scout bases in preparation for an attack and to use the Jamx ability to disable citadel and aegis abilities in order to better kill the base.

    Furthermore, I would like to point out the official F.A.Q post for the release of the Spearhead, Aegis and Citadel.

    As you can see, these ships were designed essentially for more tactical play in a PvP scenario. The spearheads abilities provide support in a PvP nature, and I see nowhere in the official F.A.Q or in the shop anything about this ship being designed for boxing. Players have adapted to use this ship especially for this purpose just like how many players like to use Aegis for cubikons in order to repair and be ready to move onto the next one at a faster rate. (I have emboldened adapted as it is a big aspect of what the game is about; changing your configs and your approach in order to survive).

    While saying the spearheads HP should be buffed, you could say that all the lower level ships should have their base rate HP buffed as well as they are in exactly the same predicament (in an even worse position than a spearhead if you ask me) however, they are purposely weaker ships, and the better ships are made to cost more uridium (Marketing 101, make weak ships easily obtainable, make the more powerful ships harder to get so that they buy our product or work hard for them).

    If you're coming into such problems with the spearhead vs pusat, here are some ships you could use as an alternative:

    • The pusat itself (if it's as great as you are saying it is, surely you should use it?)
    • The vengance (pick a design, they all come with benefits. Use EMP, freeze rocket, slow mine, slow rocket to evade - it's not really that difficult when you practice).
    • The goliath (the goliath can beat the pusat if played correctly - see above about escaping).


    -------

    I am personally really pleased about this Pusat design as it's a fun ship to play in PvP, as well as to take care of the boxers on PvP maps. One of the problems the game currently faces is having players leave a program running on their computer that will collect boxes and they can essentially just stand up and walk away from the computer and not have to bother collecting. The pusat in itself is a great combatent to this, and I have named my Pusat hangar "Botter Justice" as I am able to fly in the PvP maps and kill these ships who are using programs - personal retribution until they are caught out by Dark Orbit's script(s).

    The main thing to take away from my feedback is the fact that the Spearhead isn't a ship for fighting (it's for scouting) whereas the Pusat is made for fighting, therefore you are going to see a really large gap between their power.

    On a final note; if you are being killed whilst in a Spearhead, surely the best thing to do is change ship and fight or call your clan for help? (I link back to my previous post: it is just the fact that boxers appear to be afraid of fighting).

    Don't tell me what I should or shouldn't post either.
     
  20. I said it is not that big deal, but I said too that having one-two more seconds to survive can change things. Getting killed in 2 seconds, and 4 seconds makes a difference. Not a big, but does a difference.

    And I don't have any lack of skill while flying. I am playing this game since it's beginnings. When someone is shooting 150k+ damage with suicide config and Moth, and you are in Spearhead with 180k HP total, well you don't have much options.

    I surely does know that Spearhead was meant to be recon ship. Also, Vengeance was meant to be fast but not to deal that high damage, and of course, to be slower than the recon ships. So, what's the trade off, if we look how the ships were basically designed? How can a Vengeance now become as fast as a recon ship, and hit preety hard? Does that keep the game story as it was meant to be?

    Second, I don't need Pusat to box, thank you. :) While I am boxing, I don't need to fight back at all.

    Third, read my first post again, you will see that I have written that all the credit ship fall behind even more, but I will focus on Spearhead.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
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